“WHEN YOU ACCEPT LOW PAYING GIGS, YOU’RE NOT THE ONLY MUSICIAN YOU’RE SCREWING!”
— Matt Starr
“Sticking your foot in the ground and demanding your idea of a GREAT rate and if you take less, you’re screwing yourself and everyone else… well… simply put… that’s a lot of bull-sh!t.”
— Stevie Rachelle
REALITY CHECK, California — Hey Matt Starr… I hope you are well my friend, but I just have to disagree here.
I keep seeing your repeated promo to other musicians… mainly the younger and up n’ coming players, and your theory is flawed!
You continue to preach about demanding and holding out for the so called ‘High Paying‘ gigs and not accepting the ‘Low Paying‘ gig as it screws the player and everyone else too… well, that’s downright ridiculous.
Here’s a thought… this business, life in general and anyone going after whatever it is they might be seeking to accomplish – it’s NOT always best to use a one size fits all approach.
Some guys and girls or bands get signed, and have success before they are old enough to drink.
While others need to chase it longer, and ultimately it pays off in the end for them.
Sebastian Bach versus Mick Mars.
Both had great success but were a decade apart in age when it really happened for them, Bach was 20 when Skid Row hit and Mick was 30 before Motley Crue released their debut!
Britney Spears was a teen pop sensation at the age of 16, while Toni Basil had her biggest career smash and breakthrough hit with “Mickey” when she was almost 40… 38 years old to be exact.
With that… I would like to counter you, and give a different perspective about why demanding the biggest payday is not always the best move.
Hear me out…
Your View on This is Flawed Matt!
In 2006 I was offered
It was zero pay… but I took it anyway.
But, the promoters paid for my Flight and Hotel during the visit and then I sold my CDs and Swag and pocketed some money.
Next spring I will return to Brazil for the 7th time… and each time my experience has been better.
On my last trip to Brazil in March of 2024 on 1 show alone, I made almost $3,000, just in merchandise sales for the night… that trip I did 4 shows.
Not a bad night, and looking back over the 20 years, and my several trips to Brazil, good thing I didn’t say “No”, to their show offer that paid me nothing back in 2006.
I’ve also made dozens of lifelong friends in that amazing country and continue to expand those relationships which also found me singing on an album for another Brazilian based band (Tales From The Porn – “H.M.M.V.” released in 2017), which also lead to 3 different tours.
I did pretty much the same thing going to Australia, in 2007 and like above, I’ve been back, it was bigger, better, and have many more friends Down Under.
Even before those gigs, I took up an offer to go play in Germany with a guy named Alexx Michael and his band Shameless.
The money that was offered for that 10 show tour in 2000, was not much… it was $1,000.00 and when broken down, it paid me $100 per show for the run… which is hardly a lot of money, but he too bought my flight and covered accommodations.
And like every gig, I bring merchandise and spend the entire day and night at those gigs, selling my brand.
In the last 25 years, most recently in the summer of 2024, I have flown back to Germany… oh, about 20 times… maybe more, as I have lost count.
That $100.00 per gig tour that started in Munich back in 2000, has lead to a quarter of a century relationship with Alexx and collectively together, we have toured countless times playing all over his home country.
Not to mention, I have sang on 8 Shameless studio albums over the years.
But the shows didn’t stop at the German border, nope… we traveled and toured much of Europe which eventually brought me to tour in Italy (6 different times over the years), Belgium (3-4x), Sweden (3-4x), Denmark (more than once), Holland (several times), Austria, Spain, France (more than once), Switzerland (4-5x), Czech Republic (4-5x) and the U.K. (3-4x) playing all over England and Scotland.
Good thing I didn’t hang up on his call when he asked me to do this LOW PAYING GIG 25 summers ago.
Alexx has become one of my dearest friends and perhaps one of the hardest working and smartest guys in the business… ask Gene or Paul... they know and like Alexx too.
With that… and while visiting my Kid’s Mother’s homeland of Romania over the years… while in the midst of a 3 week family vacation, I told myself: “I want to play Romania!”
Emails were sent, information exchanged and before you know it… I was talking to Romanian MTV Veejay Lenti Chiriac and he helped me coordinate a band and gig at “Club Private Hell” in Bucharest, who hosted an evening with Stevie Rachelle of TUFF in 2007!
Like Brazil, Australia, Romania and others… I chased them down, 1 at a time, and did so… however I could to make it happen.
Some of these… I gambled, and literally took deals to play for a ‘Door Deal’ in some cases, with only a guarantee of a Hotel for the night and a hot meal.
I have now played in Romania 3 times including shows in Bucharest, Petrosani in Transylvania and Vame Veche on the Bulgarian border.
While solidifying my 3rd run of shows in Romania, I also found my way into Hungary, and played Budapest for more of the same.
What an amazing time that was… thanks to my friend Gabor Szoke who oddly I featured him and his band JOYSTIX on Metal Sludge nearly 20 years earlier.
Funny how that works…
Speaking of playing for free or low doe…
Back to Sebastian Bach who I mentioned above… who when he was an unknown, opted to make the trek from Canada to New Jersey to attend the famous photographer Mark Weiss‘ wedding.
I am sure Bach felt like at the time he might meet some rock stars there, and as an 18 year old did just that and soon found himself jamming (for Free) with Kevin DuBrow of Quiet Riot with the wedding band.
Good thing he did… as Mr. & Mrs. Bongiovi sat in the crowd and thought, “He might fit Jon‘s friend’s band.”
The rest of that… well, it’s history that most know, and my guess is you do too.
Back to me… my travels, and at times my aggressive tactics to make it happen… regardless of a BIG PAY DAY or not… to date my willingness to agree – has had me on stage in more than 25 countries on 4 continents, on-going for 30+ years.
Now, in recent years… I reached out and clawed my way into playing in Thailand!
With no BIG guarantee, I was willing to roll the dice and bet on myself again, to take the chance… I sold myself enough, to get my foot in the door… and that is all I wanted.
I have now been to Thailand and played Bangkok and Pattaya, not once, not twice, but three times over the years, and each time, my friend’s network has grown, and again I relied on selling my brand (merchandise) to bridge the gap.
My point is… you’re idea to ALWAYS hold out, and DEMAND the highest pay is NOT always the right way.
And for any young kid, who is looking up to you, for advice, because you filled-in on the drums for Mr. Big or Kix on a few shows/tours, is NOT always the best advice to these young impressionable players…
This is of course, my 2-cents.
Here’s more…
I recently watched a video from the Get On The Bus podcast, and the guest was John 5.
John talks in detail about moving to Los Angeles, studying at G.I.T. and he says in the interview, that he took every single opportunity and when was asked a price, he would under-cut and charge half the rate that other players were… simply because he wanted to get in the mix, get his name out there, to be seen and heard.
Based on his resume… (Manson, Roth, Zombie, Crue) I would venture he now gets a much bigger pay day then the days when he was a nobody no-name kid from Michigan.
Had the no-name kid from Michigan, talent or not… said; “I want the BIG PAY DAY or I will pass“, his resume would likely not list those mega-multi-platinum artists that he has worked with for decades.
Let me also add, that in recent years, TUFF have received some of our biggest paydays ever, shows that paid us great money… but… even with that big paying anchor date or festival gig… we still grab the smaller warm-up club show for sometimes less money than a tribute band gets paid.
Again… it’s not a one size fits all… and I am only blasting you here, as I continue to see your same pitch, telling all these guys to basically say “No“, unless it’s “X” dollars.
I could not disagree more with this…
TUFF and myself have a 35+ year history, and we were fortunate enough to sign deals with 3 Major Labels back in the day (Atlantic, IRS, BMG), we had our run on MTV, appeared in every rock magazine on the planet, had some radio action and toured during the heyday of the era… in the end, I still can’t say “Pay us this or else“, because some of the promoters and agents will likely reply with; “Or else what?”
Your approach is acting like you deserve this… and while you may, it’s also great when others feel that, or it’s earned more than deserved.
You are also trying to pitch this to mainly unknown guys, who are playing in tribute groups, cover bands, or perhaps they’re trying to get hired by a name group, like you have been along the way.
In the end, I firmly believe it’s better to play 5 gigs in a month for $150 or $200, than to play NO gigs at all, simply because the kid demanded he be paid $300 or $500 and he is walking around with the “Matt Starr told me so” chip on his shoulder.
I am also aware that their are guys in our circles, that are making $750 to a $1,000 and up per show.
And if that is the case, I’d bet more often than not, the band replies; “Sorry bro, we’re going to use another guy.“
Some of these guys who have subbed for Tesla, Warrant, Stryper, Winger, are also playing with lower tier bands, and local bands as well… my guess is… and it’s NOT a guess, the Winger or Warrant gig pays quite a bit more than the local band gig.
We all realize, there are levels to this game, and it’s my thought, that especially for younger guys, who are starting to get the work, they must do this using a sliding scale.
It’s also safe to say, that the married guy with 2 kids and a house payment, has to make considerable more money doing his craft, than a 20-something who is living with 3 buddies in a apartment driving a used car.
That is like a restaurant having a menu that sells Steak only, for $40.00 and opting to NOT sell the Hot Dog or Hamburger for $15.00 and $20.00 or a Grilled Cheese for $10.00.
If they say, “Nope, we only sell Steak!“, well, they just lost those Hot Dog, Hamburger and Grilled Cheese customers for the day.
Here is one for you… and no, I am not done yet… I have more receipts my friend.
When 4 young kids from Sweden bought their own flight to come play “Crue-Fest” at the “Whisky” on July 30th 2005, they were paid exactly – zero dollars!
But it was their dream and they chased it, they believed in themselves and the 4 flew all the way here, stayed in a Hotel next to In ‘N’ Out Burger on Sunset Strip and at 6:00pm on July 30th 2005, as the 1st band of 10, took the stage for 30 minutes at the “Whisky”.
The doors had opened at 5:30pm, and there were maybe 25 people in the crowd.
I was 1 of those people there… ironically setting up a TUFF merchandise table as we were on the bill that that night as well.
The MC introduced them… ‘Please welcome, from Sweden… Vains Of Jenna‘… and they ripped into their first song!
I was blown away… and after their short 6 song set, that they played for FREE, I went straight to their dressing room!
Finding out they were 19, 19, 21 and 23 sealed the deal… they were already very convincing, and it was only their 5th or 6th show together… perhaps this was because 2 of them were still in High School, and had actually just graduated a month earlier in June of 2005.
I did learn later, that Lizzy DeVine was singing on stage since age 12, and it was no wonder, as the guy was a Mother-F#@king ROCK STAR…. and he still is to this day in his new band The Cruel Intentions!
I talked to them
That began our relationship as band and manager!
The following spring (May 2006) they returned on a 90 day VISA and I am not sure WTF I was thinking, but I let them stay in my house, and told them… I am going to take your band to the next level.
As a matter of fact, I told them in so many words: “I know I can get you signed, you’ll tour, get free gear, clothing endorsements, tour on busses, you’ll get to hear your songs on the radio & MTV, you will be in magazines, there will be girls, drugs and more girls… everything you ever dreamed of… I can make it happen… I am positive… the only 2 things I cannot promise, is a Platinum Record or making you Millionaires… everything else… it’s going to happen!”
And it did… ALL of it.
That summer Vains of Jenna ruled the Sunset Strip, and within 60 days they were signed to Bam Margera‘s label Filthy Note Records, and by that fall (October 2006), their record “Lit Up Let Down” was in stores, their swag was in 600 Hot Topic stores and they did the Hot Topic Triple Threat Tour from L.A. to N.Y. and back with Fireball Ministry and Artimus Pyledriver.
The following year Vains of Jenna toured the U.S. as main stage openers on the Poison and Ratt (summer 2007 amphitheater tour) with their song being the theme for MTV‘s “Viva’ La Bam” and opened up Kat Von D‘s L.A. Ink tattoo shop.
There are 1,000 other highlights I could list… but by now… I hope I have made my point.
Remember, they played that “Whisky” gig for FREE… and had they said; “Nah, we need $1,000 to cover some costs“, they likely would have been told; “Sorry, and good luck“.
There is NO exact science to making it in this business, and while I am not trying to sh!t on you, or take money out of your pocket… I don’t feel your continued message to younger musicians is always the best message.
I have my own… and to any young kid, band or musician who wants advice… I will give it to you for FREE… and won’t charge you $250.00 for a PDF file telling you how to make it!
In the end, it’s like that old Kenny Rogers song says, knowing when to hold ’em and knowing when to fold them.
If an artist who sold 5 million records shows interest to hire you, yeah… stand by your rate.
But when the local band or tribute act needs a sub for the weekend, you get the call, your schedule is open, but you throw them some inflated National Touring Artist number, they’re more than likely to tell you to kick rocks.
Again, going back to what I said in the start, this is not a ‘one size fits all’ approach… and if you use that, good for you, but poluting the younger generations mind with that, I don’t agree.
There is no guaranteed way to make it, and knowing your worth is great, but sticking your foot in the ground and demanding your idea of the great pay rate and if you take less, you’re screwing yourself and everyone else around you… well… simply put… that’s a lot of bull-sh!t.
Thank you for reading, and good luck to everyone.
P.S. My advice… go to College, and do anything other than music!
Stevie Rachelle ‘From Hell’
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